Would you consider yourself a spiritual person?
DERRICOTTE: Yes, absolutely. I went to Catholic school all my life. And I remember thinking, when I was about eight years old, “Is there a God? Is there a force for good that exists in the universe?” I made a decision that if I didn’t believe that, I don’t think I could live. I think for me it’s that kind of personal choice that if I didn’t feel that there was some force for good, I would just off myself. Why be alive?

And how does that work into your day?
DERRICOTTE: I count on accidents. In some way I think I count on being taken care of. It doesn’t mean that I don’t go through total emotional breakdowns where sometimes I don’t even think I’m going to make it. But it seems like I do pass through as part of the journey for me and part of the artist journey. And I used to be much more afraid of not coming back from certain emotional circumstances that I’ve been in, but I’m less afraid now.

Are you writing when you’re at those depths?
DERRICOTTE: Yes, absolutely. I won’t say at the worst moment, but pretty soon after that. When I started The Black Notebooks, I was in the middle of a suicidal depression, and I was writing chicken scratch. There weren’t even recognizable words. I didn’t know what I was writing about. But you know, that’s the part of the process as you say, “How do you know when something’s over?” It’s just you open it up. Every book to me represents a closure, an emotional closure.

That you move on from?
DERRICOTTE: Yes. It doesn’t mean I completely move on. It’s like those reverberations or resonances. They say writers write about the same thing over and over and over. And great writers write about the same two things over and over and over. But you know, I was writing about being a light-skinned black woman for 30 years when I was writing The Black Notebooks. And now I’m not exactly writing about that. I still write about race, but I’m not at that same place about questioning the shame and self-loathing and transforming that into art. I’m not at that same place anymore.

I remember when I met you several years ago. And you told me that someone said to you, “Toi, how long are you going to do this?”
DERRICOTTE: Right. I think I remember that conversation. I think it was a black woman who said it to me because I had gotten into the habit, because I did not like for white people to think I was white and then find out I was black and then act different. That was really scary to me, about what is reality and what do people really think of me. So, I would say, “Hi. I’m Toi Derricotte. I’m black.” And, this person said to me, “Toi, you know, get over it.” But, I just want to end that by saying, there are all kinds of dangers in talking about certain subjects. And you never do it right. Somebody’s going to say, “You’re doing it at the wrong time. You’re doing it the wrong way. You should do it more like this.” It’s like I say about race, “You could never do black the right way.” You’re either too light. You’re too dark. You’re too early. You’re too late.

You can’t do it right. Somebody’s always going to take umbrage with the way you’re doing it. And the more taboo or difficult the subject, the less right you’re going to be able to be. That is what the danger is about talking about certain things.

Where do you think America is now with race?
DERRICOTTE: I’m really scared. I’m really scared, because I know on a deep level that some white people cannot understand why they’re being treated like black people. Why do they not have money? Why are their kids going to inferior schools just like black people? Why are they unable to be better than black people, economically better off, privileges? Often, white people have thought that things were destined to be better, because they were better.

And you’re worried, why?
DERRICOTTE: I think that with the wrong kind of leadership, nothing but harmful lines will be drawn between races, and it’s not good. I think if we have the right kind of leadership that could be different. But I’m not so sure that it can happen. That’s the mystery. I don’t know if that’ll happen or not.

Is America better with race relations than it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago?
DERRICOTTE: Well, I think one of the things that’s happening now is that people are talking about slavery. They never talked about it before. It’s certainly better than it was during slavery.

And it is better now because they’re acknowledging history and making sure to have learned from it?
DERRICOTTE: You know, that’s beyond me. All I know is what I see. I’m a poet. And my influence and my sphere of knowledge all comes down to poetry for me, what’s happening with poetry in the world. And I see that here in the United States, the white supremacy, about what art is. And it’s always been very much connected with elitism, with class. In other words, artists may be poor, but the ones who make it, are hooked to the people with money and power. I see that African American writing, for sure, and other groups are changing what is literature in the United States and I think that’s a profound change. And I believe that it has actually already started to happen. My co-founder Cornelius Eady has a line in a poem of his that says, “I am a brick in a house that is being built around your house.” And I do see that there: that something is changing about art and about poetry. And I think it’s going to make a difference.

A more level playing field, more opportunities for young writers?
DERRICOTTE: More than that. I think there’s a certain vision that comes– like Billie Holiday. Let’s go back to Billie Holiday. That voice comes from what she suffered, and her position in society. And there is something that voice knows that even she doesn’t know, because she messed herself up bad. She was at war with herself. But that voice came from something that she knew, because when she started singing, she was not the same woman as when she was talking. If you ever hear her talk, she sounds like she’s just as crude as she can be. But as soon as she starts singing, she’s a different person. And I do believe that there’s a voice that comes from what we experience that goes beyond what we live even. And I think a lot of the people who haven’t experienced the depth of deprivation that has been around race in this country, especially with regard to slavery and, the slaves building the economy of America and not being recognized for doing that. And slavery, and the work that people did creates a vision that will change people’s way of thinking about things. They don’t get it. They just don’t get it. They don’t know. They don’t understand. Maybe that’s too optimistic.

Is the rise of Barack Obama, with the millions of people who are supporting him…
DERRICOTTE: Is it hope?

He has the biggest group of grassroots support. It’s a majority of his contributions.
DERRICOTTE: We know they’re not all black. It says something, doesn’t it?

What does that do for the country in its relationship with African American people?
DERRICOTTE: It’ll never be the same.

Why won’t it be the same?
DERRICOTTE: Because, something calls that. I have no fucking idea. If you could have asked me four years ago if there would be a black man nominated for president, what do you think I would have said? [Laughs.]

I don’t know what happened. I have no fricking idea. I do know that when he speaks about race, it’s brilliant. And perhaps people hear something that makes them understand. As I said, maybe his experience helps people to understand something they didn’t understand before.

Are the people supporting him because he stands for what he stands for, he’s a great communicator, or because the country wants a change?
DERRICOTTE: Or, are they supporting him because anything could help right now. Anything, I’ll take anything.