—50 years from now do you think the U.S. will still be talking about its need to find a replacement for oil? Do you think we’ll still be talking about nuclear proliferation?

It’s only when we are driven to the wall, that we respond and it may be too late.

WENDER: To answer your question, yes we always will be. But there are answers and when driven to it, you go back to global warming. Our attempts to reduce our CO2, the amount of CO2 that’s being put out by this country—we burn over a billion tons of coal and China burns two and a half billion tons of coal. The amount of CO2 made naturally is huge in addition to CO2 from coal and from gasoline. It may be that our attempts to reduce CO2 may not make a significant difference. So what could we do. We may be forced, in the end, to adapt. India is making a cheap car, mostly plastic — good in that it burns less gasoline per mile but they are putting more cars on the road. If the seashore retreats, the seas rise, we must adapt: use less energy, become more efficient in utilizing energy. The Pittsburgh Post–Gazette had an article some time ago saying that the climate of Pittsburgh may eventually resemble that of Alabama. It’s only when we are driven to the wall, that we respond and it may be too late.

We must adapt: use less energy, become more efficient in utilizing energy.

So the efforts of just one country, say the U.S., won’t matter, it needs to be the effort of multiple countries?
WENDER: They may produce more CO2 then we do today. 2.7 billion tons of coal last year.

So the efforts of just one country, say the U.S., won’t matter, it needs to be the effort of multiple countries?
WENDER: Even China has, well they can’t help themselves, but even China is beginning to recognize that they should do something about it. If you ever been to China, you know the atmosphere is really pretty bad at times. It’s just hard to breathe. It hasn’t reached that point I think over here. But China is doing very, very well and I have a feeling they certainly aren’t matched by anybody… The buildings are going up like mad, but the people who live in the hinterland there are getting disgruntled. So I don’t know what will happen over there. But they’re doing a great job. Several of our grad students have gone back to China and are doing extremely well. We keep in touch with them. […] We will handle the problem but it will be a displacement for us in many ways. What do you think?

I don’t know. [Laughs] I think it will take an entirely different approach of leadership.
WENDER: Oh absolutely.
It has to start at the top and it has to be set by example before you ask other parties to go with you down a certain path and there cannot be a double standard.
WENDER: That is true. Except that when it starts to hurt us in some way very badly, when we can’t get something, lets say, oil, or something like that, we have to become more efficient and clever. We have the capability of doing it but we haven’t reached it yet. I mean we can, we will do that. And the leadership will help a lot I agree.

And do you think a solution to continuing the growth of industrialization but not hurting the environment, do you think that solution will be rooted in the U.S. or another country? Who would you predict would have that leadership and ability?
WENDER: Well, I’m not going to answer that question right now. I believe you can’t do much about CO2 in regard to global warming. Nevertheless, we should try to reduce global CO2 emissions.

Economically?
WENDER: Yes. We ought to try very hard. We must be more efficient. If we have to be more efficient, we’ll cut down on the amount of oil, gas, and everything that we use.

And the research and moneys allocated to fighting global warming?
WENDER: And the things that people are going to do, for instance to sequester CO2, and to put it into the ground. There are millions going into that already. The CO2 all over the world is going to be just as large so why even try to do it. If CO2 is the cause, is it possible that attempts to reduce CO2 emissions will fail to reduce global warming to a significant extent.

And you think that money would be better spent in…
WENDER: In efficiency! I mean we have all of these cars, millions and millions of cars pumping out CO2 all of the time. We don’t do much about that. No one has solved that problem either. And although the number of cars all over the world is increasing. In India and China, now everyone’s driving a car, that’s what we hear from our grad students. In China, they drive cars, everyone wants a car, and everyone smokes like mad. We’ve got a grad student who’s there now and when he first went there he was in an elevator and everybody was smoking. He’s gotten used to it.